What's a good repository to park the source in? I don't really plan on maintaining this, but want to offer it up for community hacking. Heard there's a git repository floating around, but I'm a total git newbie...
I keep getting "fatal: sha1 file '<stdout>' write error (Bad file descriptor)" when I try to git-push to the wiki repository, so if someone for whom git works wants to grab the tarball and import it, feel free.
It's because the ~: syntax is expanded at evaluation time, not at read-time. The Arc compiler looks at each symbol, and if it has one of those characters, it splits on the :, wraps in (compose ...), and adds a (complement ...) form every time the section begins with ~.
I really like #4, but what other data types would it support? Arc doesn't currently have anything other than lists, hashtables, and primitives. Unless you mean specifying call and set operations for tagged data types...
For instance, if you look at arc.arc, you'll see the first two macros are defined without the use of the macro mac. Using
(set foo (annotate 'mac some-function))
This sets the type to a 'mac (or macro :)
So yes, I guess I do mean for tagged data-types, but also for any possible future 'native' types that it will come to support. Or even redefining it within the context of your application.
The way I solved this in the Wiki was to give tagged values (except macros) the same calling semantics as their non-tagged equivalents. Thus, you can represent arbitrary datatypes as functions, tagging them to keep track of their type but still calling them.
a) The ability to define within arc what happens when a list is
used as function, instead of it being predefined in scheme
b) The ability to do this for any type and custom types.
And potentially:
c) For annotated values to be able to do this per-object,
by storing an extra field in there that is the getter,
where the default value is the one for the type.
E.g: (annotate 'blabla value getter)
If there is no getter, then use the one for type 'blabla
In other languages, you'd typically store the session in memcached or the database, and then run multiple web frontends that each connect to the shared memcache instance or DB server. Can you serialize closures and store them in an external backend, assuming the existence of memcached and/or database bindings?
(I'm not asking this to prove a point or be a dick...this is a real issue in a lot of deployments. Java/JSF takes the same approach - it stores the complete state of the user interaction in a tree on the server, and then uses either a cookie or URL parameter to retrieve that state. A coworker and I spent a couple weeks digging into the JSF internals to get it to operate statelessly; the base JSF framework worked fine with a configuration change, but the AJAX framework built on top of it choked miserably.)
What did you do to get the base JSF to work on multiple servers? I am having that issue now - whenever a server switch is done, the context set up by JSF is lost and a blank page shows. Results 2 thru n on the same server are fine, result 1 being the initial page (JSP) request. Thanks.
It'll serialize the UIComponent tree and store it in a hidden input field with every interaction, then restore the view from that field. Naturally, this doesn't work if you're using GET for forms. (There's an undocumented feature of JSF where you can change the form method using JavaScript and make it submit information via GET. It tends to break though - you can easily overflow query strings, and I recall some problems when binding components to bean properties.)
Hahahaha no. Lisp-1 + unhygienic macros + no module system = a world of pain when projects grow beyond a few thousand lines, even ignoring the lack of user-defined data types. The lack of structured data is less of a problem than it might seem, because you can write accessor functions that abstract away whether it's stored in a list or hashtable and the precise keys, and just use those. The issue is namespace-pollution from all those accessors.
I'd kinda like to see Arc grow some sort of module system - even a very simple dictionary-based system like Python's or JavaScript can go a long way towards making larger programs tractable. Come to think of it, I think you could emulate JavaScript's system with closures and hashtables. Just wrap every module in a closure, which binds a hashtable to the module name and inserts each function into the hash table:
As far as I can tell, having a purely closure-based module system won't actually
solve the lisp-1 redefinition problem; to use your module system, some manner of
compile-time token capture is necessary. Essentially, the problem is:
However, as you can imagine, this will get unwieldy fairly quickly (like you,
I've downloaded the arc0.tar file, but not actually bothered to downgrade my
copy of plt-372; i.e., I'm not sure how canonical the provided arc snippets
are).
Of course the ignored caveat is this: so many bloggers are up in arms over this
point, it's presupposed that being able to change core library functions is a
defacto terrible thing--at work, where we have a massive C/C++ codebase running
on some unmaintained, sourceless, legacy APIs, being able to (for example)
add/fix methods in some of the base classes would be a significant time-saver.
I think Arc as-is makes it a bit too easy to shoot yourself in the foot;
however, I'm firmly in the camp that being able to update core functionality
should be allowable.
Also, for better or worse, look at emacs: a massive, mature system that contains
no module/namespace system, no closures, and, due to its dynamic scope, would
fail each of the above examples. I'm not saying I hope Arc emulates these (lack
of) features, however, it's still proof that they're not necessary for large,
real-world (whatever that means) projects.
The big problem is def and =s update a global symbol table. They are not like Scheme and define. If def obeyed local scoping rules and could be shadowed, the problem is shadowing has to be done explicitly. That is why this is painful and unwieldy. Ultimately, this needs to be fixed or Arc will be needlessly crippled.
What kind of syntax should we use to denote the module? Something like:
(module::function args)
This idea comes from Ruby, though I am not sure it necessarily plays well with the function composition operator (func1:func2). I wouldn't want to use -> or "." because of the concept collisions those would create. Could we just use something that doesn't have a mainstream meaning, like (module#function) or (module>>function)?
module::function looks good to me. Someone else suggested allowing user-defined syntax characters; this would be a good use-case. It only has to expand into (module 'function), so the implementation is basically trivial.
Why not module:function? Abuse the property that : stands for composition. A more lispy solution of (module function) might also work, and its only an extra character. Though if I were going for an Arc solution, it should probably be (bin fn) or (md fn).
In JavaScript they're the same thing - objects do quintuple-duty as hashtables, records, objects, classes, and modules. Arc is very similar to JavaScript in terms of the primitive data types available - they're both Scheme-derived languages.
The reason I'd term call this modules is that they don't have the implicit-receiver that classes/objects do, nor do they have constructors. Once you define a module, that's it, and they live in the global namespace. You could change things around pretty easily so that instead of immediately executing the closure containing the module's namespace, you define it as a constructor function. And you could probably then come up with some macro to expand to a message send, which passes the object as the first argument to any method defined in it. I think you'd be stuck with explicit-self though, like in JavaScript or Python, instead of the implicit `this` of Java.
Backquote, comma, and comma-at are reader macros that expand into quasiquote, unquote, and unquote-splicing, respectively. So your example expands to
(quasiquote (a b (unquote-splicing args) (unquote x)))
If you allow unquoting within quote, how do you tell the difference between an evaluated (unquote x) form and a literal (unquote x)? You might want the latter if, for example, you have a macro that returns another macro with unquoting.
Using Prototype and even more of a hack:
<script src="prototype.js"/><input id="a"/><input type="submit" onclick="h=Element.hide;h('a');h(this);u=Element.update;u('c','Click Here');"/><a id="c" onclick="u('c','You said '+$F('a'))"/>