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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3577 days ago | link | parent | on: The super loop (fun macro exercise)

I've thought about things like this quite a bit, mainly because I'm one of the few people who actually do like CL's LOOP macro. I think it'd be pretty fun indeed to try and write something in Arc.

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3598 days ago | link | parent | on: Two useful language extension ideas

Try to think of it as an add-on, not a replacement. If you were to rewrite "isa" to first check if the type you're checking for is the builtin expression type or the tag, and if it's not, lookup the symbol in the "tags" table. If the key is not bound, it returns nil. If the key is bound, apply the predicate bound to the key to the value supplied to "isa".

Example:

(deftag posnum (and (isa _ 'num) (> _ 0)))

(isa 1 'posnum) => t

(isa 0 'posnum) => nil

(isa 1 'blah) => nil

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2 points by akkartik 3597 days ago | link

Ah, I see. I understand now why Pauan brought up predicate dispatch.

Incidentally, anarki does predicate dispatch through defextend:

  (defextend some (test seq) (isa seq 'string)
    (let f testify.test
      (recstring f:seq seq)))
(https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/blob/97b3464256/arc.ar...)

Would this be easier to express using the tags table?

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3597 days ago | link

In my opinion defextend is fine the way it is, it has its similarities to CLOS's defmethod, which I would avidly abuse in my earlier lisp days.

The positive thing about adding a tagged predicate dispatch table, if implemented into "isa", would be the illusion of any object being a particular "type", provided it satisfies the predicate. In reality, the true type of the object would be cons or sym or whatever its value is.

One simple idea: The int/num difference could theoretically be moved into arc codespace via deftag. Primarily leave the number type "num" internally, but deduce if a number is an "int" via the tags table.

Example:

  (deftag int
    (and (isa _ 'num)
         (is _ (round _))))
  
  (isa 1.5 'int) => nil
  (isa 1 'int) => t
One cool thing you could do is define tags for something like an object descriptor, or a class. Store whatever you need in cons cells, along with maybe a symbol at the head named "class:" or something, with "slots:" or "methods:" in that class. This could easily be checked if a particular cons resembles a "[class]" structured cons via a predicate, right? So deftag a predicate for "class". Then check if your object is a class-structed cons via "isa".

Example:

  (deftag class
    (and (alist _)
         (is len._ 3)
         (is car._ 'class:)
         (alist cadr._)
         (>= (len cadr._) 1)
         (is (car cadr._) 'slots:)
         (alist (car:cddr _))
         (>= (len:car:cddr _) 1)
         (is (caar:cddr _) 'methods)))

  (= foo '(class:
            (slots: bar)
            (methods: baz)))

  (isa foo 'class) => t
  (isa foo 'cons) => t
  (type foo) => cons
  (alist foo) => t

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3596 days ago | link

I've got a simple, functional version that could easily be transcribed in anarki. Here it is in MTL:

https://github.com/camden-smallwood/mtl/blob/master/core.l#L...

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2 points by akkartik 3596 days ago | link

tag and isa already mean something in anarki. Any suggestions on how we integrate the existing type support with deftag? Feel free to send a pull request!

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3596 days ago | link

In truth, it's been about 5-6 years since I've collaborated on anyone's code that isn't my own. I'd love to submit a pull request :) I'm installing Racket & Anarki on this windows machine this morning to see about getting a working version. Do you think "deftype" would be ok for the macro name? Any other suggestions? Maybe something in the spirit of original Arc, like "pred" for predicate or something?

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2 points by akkartik 3596 days ago | link

I think you're in the best position to judge :) Maybe play with a little example program and see what looks best in its context? If it doesn't seem to matter just pick one. We can always change it later.

I have to admit, I'm not sure how long it's been since somebody tried installing anarki on windows. Let me know when you run into problems. I'm actually amazed that I was able to get mtl running on linux so easily. Are you using cygwin?

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3596 days ago | link

No, I can't stand Cygwin. I actually wrote the original 1200 lines of the interpreter on Fedora. My goal was to try to keep it completely portable C code. As of right now, on my machine, I create a Win32 Console app in Visual Studio to compile MTL on Windows, and it works just fine. Initially I had some segfaults, but it was mainly due to the lack of exception checks and null checks... So as far as I can tell, it's pretty much cross platform at the moment.

In the few minutes I've used anarki, it seems to work just fine :) I just run it in the command-line Racket app by running:

  (load "C:/anarki/boot.scm")
  (tl)

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3595 days ago | link

Pull request submitted. I had to fix a small bug that I didn't check for before... It works now :)

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2 points by akkartik 3595 days ago | link

Playing with it some more, I have a few ideas/tweaks :)

1. Maybe we should rename deftype to def-isa since it only overrides isa, not type or coerce? That would also fit with how we use defcall to extend coercion to function, defcoerce to extend coerce, defset to extend assignment, etc.

2. I'm thinking of renaming the types table to type-predicates.

What do you think?

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3595 days ago | link

I like both ideas, they flow well with arc and anarki's naming scheme. Something like the following:

  (def-isa list (alist _))

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3595 days ago | link

At the same time, I kind of feel like having a dash makes it deviate a little... And "defisa" just doesn't look right in my opinion. Do you think having a slight variance would be ok?

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1 point by akkartik 3595 days ago | link

Just submitted and then saw your comment: https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/commit/4cfe8c36e5.

Feel free to change further or to revert if it doesn't look right. Nothing is set in stone.

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2 points by akkartik 3595 days ago | link

Thanks! I see it now. Amazing how much difference it makes to see it working in a known context.

I figured out why '=' wasn't working; we were redefining it further down the file. I fixed it by moving deftype to later, and now we can go back to '='. https://github.com/arclanguage/anarki/commit/2c12a9e4f8. Does that seem reasonable?

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3595 days ago | link

Works great!

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1 point by akkartik 3596 days ago | link

I'm curious how your square bracket syntax works. In particular, why does this work?

  mtl> ([_.car] '(1 2 3))
  1
But not this?

  mtl> ([0._] '(1 2 3))
  Exception: Symbol is not bound: 0

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3596 days ago | link

Essentially the syntax is the same, but with one difference: If the body of the bracket function ONLY consists of a dotted expression, the body of the function IS that expression. Example:

  Anarki:
  [car._] => (fn (_) ((car _))) ; note extra parens
  [car _] => (fn (_) (car _))

  MTL:
  [_.car] => (fn (_) (car _))
  [car _] => (fn (_) (car _))
I mainly took this step to take advantage of having support for multiple "dots", Example:

  x.car.type => (type (car x))
It's just more readable in my opinion. In regards to the second part of your post, it's because of a bug in my number reader, which I'll fix soon. Thanks for pointing it out!

I plan to add n-expression support into bracket functions, too. It would make the following work:

  ([_(1)] '(1 2 3)) => 2

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2 points by akkartik 3596 days ago | link

Nice!

I've criticized sweet-exprs in the past as trying to do too much (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8507385). But the original subset you're implementing here is very useful.

(I'm still opposed to neoteric expressions, because parens before function is The One True Way, especially in the presence of infix: http://arclanguage.org/item?id=16924. But I won't agitate for it again since n-exprs are optional :)

BTW, in searching for the above link I ran across http://arclanguage.org/item?id=18261, which you might find interesting if you hadn't already seen it.

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Modernized the main user interface and unified the Semi-Arc jar and apk sources. At the moment, I'm doing a cleanup/rewrite of most of the major internals because (as stated by the original author) everything is far from optimal in the performance market. After that, I plan to make a branch of anarki's arc code be the main library. So it'll be like anarki on android!

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1 point by akkartik 3640 days ago | link

Nice! This might get us to replace srv.arc with app-development tools. Though it would be neat to see a webserver running on my phone :p

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It's not signed. Feel free to compile it from source :)

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New Source (.apk in bin folder): https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7T0CVHnS8CQY1ptQy1Obi1mdUE/...

I want to get the networking and i/o portions working, clean up where possible and make the gui (slightly) customizable... It'd be pretty nice if I could get it to be compatible with anarki :)

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2 points by akkartik 3643 days ago | link

That would all be awesome.

I've been building my latest project atop anarki. It would be most interesting to try it on android: http://github.com/akkartik/mu

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And the "oa" stood for "on Android". Originally, it was just a command-line .jar

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Whoops! I'll upload the latest one which has all of the source in one project. The original author left the sources separate like that, so I had to do some digging and splice it together.

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3673 days ago | link | parent | on: Mtl-arc - A new Arc implementation

It should build now

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3674 days ago | link | parent | on: Mtl-arc - A new Arc implementation

I apologize, I must admit I am terrible at creating Makefiles... I'll make fixing it top priority.

Among other things, I recently added a prototype curly-infix reader, which has been kind of fun coding with, because it makes math bearable, and it makes certain things easier to read. Along with variable negation, it seems quite handy.

examples:

(def isa (a b) {type.a is b}) => (def isa (a b) (is (type a) b))

{caar = [car car._]} => (= caar (fn (_) (car (car _))))

{1 + 2 + 3 - 4 - 5} => (- (+ 1 2 3) 4 5)

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3717 days ago | link | parent | on: Another Arc implementation in C

Should be fixed in the latest commit.

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2 points by SteveGraham 3714 days ago | link

Went to the page, selected Download Zip, downloaded the file, extracted it and ran 'make && ./' and got:

  cc -o arc *.c
  read.c: In function 'load_file':
  read.c:308:47: warning: initialization makes pointer from integer without a cast [enabled by default]
  C:\Users\Steve\AppData\Local\Temp\cctkjQZb.o:read.c:(.text+0xeb4): undefined reference to `_realpath'
  collect2.exe: error: ld returned 1 exit status
  make: *** [all] Error 1

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3714 days ago | link

Sorry, for some reason I didn't send the commit for that file before, but it is finally updated this time.

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2 points by SteveGraham 3714 days ago | link

Downloaded and tried again. It did make. However, I then got an alert box stating that 'arc.exe has stopped working'.

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2 points by c-a-smallwood 3713 days ago | link

Hmmm. Guess I'm gonna have to make a Windows VM and do some digging.

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